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Mary Ellen O’Connor, founder of O’Connor Law, PLLC, joins us to discuss how she hires, retains, and works with remote team members.
This episode and the next several will feature PILMMA speakers in our “Spotlight on PILMMA” podcast series.
Mary Ellen also covers what she is looking forward to the most at PILMMA Super Summit 2025!
Visit Mary Ellen online here: https://www.nyworkerslaw.com/our-team/mary-ellen-oconnor/.
We’ll be at PILMMA Super Summit 2025: https://optimizemyfirm.com/pilmma-2025/.
See all episodes or subscribe to the Personal Injury Marketing Minute here: https://optimizemyfirm.com/podcasts/.
Transcript:
Welcome to the Personal Injury Marketing Minute, where we quickly cover the hot topics in the legal marketing world.
I’m your host, Lindsey Busfield. When it comes to SEO, we have long known that you need to hire the best of the best in order to move the needle.
As it so happens, the best of the best didn’t all decide to move to Raleigh, North Carolina, so we hire remotely.
Our web developers in Texas, our Google Business Profile expert is in Ohio, and we have writers in a handful of additional states.
That way, we can source the right talent for the job. The same is true in the legal field. In order to best serve your clients, as well as your operational needs, you might
You might need to look beyond your own hometown for the right professionals. Continuing our Spotlight on PILMMA series, Mary Ellen O’Connor of O’Connor Law in New York joins us today to share some insights on remote hiring, her presentation topic at the upcoming PILMMA conference.
Thank you so much for joining us today.
Mary Ellen
Oh, thank you so much for having me, Lindsey. I really appreciate it.
Lindsey
Well, tell us a bit about yourself and about your practice.
Mary Ellen
So I am the owner of O’Connor Law, and we’ve been in business for almost 16 years now, and we represent injured workers in the state of New York.
When they’re injured on the job, we have five attorneys and a support staff of 25. So we’ve been growing particularly fast over the past four or five years, and it’s mostly due to remote work.
Lindsey
Well, and with that sustained growth and, you know, exponential growth over the past several years, getting the right people in place to…
scaffold that growth and make sure that your operations are supported is necessary if you want to be able to build out and continue to grow long term.
And so clearly, you know, as you said, you have hired remotely. Why do you consider remote hiring to be necessary in this situation?
Mary Ellen
So I think that remote hiring provides you with not just the opportunity to open up the market to the best and the brightest, but also, from my own experience, I actually started working in 2005.
So back when remote work was sort of, you know, not a non thing. And I remember when I got hired and they told me I could work remotely, I didn’t actually believe them.
So, you know, I know that when the CEO of the insurance company said to me, hey, why are you on calendar next week on September 7th?
It’s the first day of school, don’t you have children? And I said, yeah. Yes, I’ve only been here three weeks.
I don’t have any time to take. And he’s like, well, work from home that day. So I was like, I’m not allowed.
I’m still on the six-month probation. And he was like, I’m the CEO. I just said to work from home.
And it started a relationship with someone that had my full dedication because it provided me with an opportunity to never really have to give up being a mother and or being an attorney.
Now, you really can’t have it all. But this was the best of both worlds where I could work from home, pop in for that 15-minute pumpkin story that they needed to read and then run back home and not miss work and not miss the event.
So being afforded that opportunity also then gave me a dedication to that person who gave me that opportunity. So I think that when people are given that opportunity,
Of having that flexibility, they’re also going to be a little bit more dedicated to the people that they’re working for because they understand that, you know, not everyone can work in an office, but everyone can work.
Lindsey
Right. And I can absolutely relate to that experience where I started my marketing career working for a law firm in downtown Raleigh, had the 45 minute commute there every day, 45 minutes home.
I was a new mom and my daughter had some health issues and so was constantly going back and forth to doctor’s appointments and quickly realized that that commute and that giant part of my life and that not being able to easily transition from work mode to mom mode back to work mode.
It wasn’t going to be sustainable long term. And fortunately, I connected with Len here at Optimize My Firm and it was 100 percent remote.
And I could do the things that I needed to do as a project manager, as a. You know, an SEO expert and, you know, in our business development plan, be able to achieve all of those goals without having to be confined to an office.
And I wasn’t struggling with the work-life balance of, you know, I need to go take an hour to go to a doctor’s appointment or, you know, I need to go throw the laundry in the wash.
Like, it was a breath of fresh air. And I know that I felt more connected to the business and was pouring from a full cup because I was able to sustain all the different things that were going on in my life without having to, you know, take extra time out for that commute.
Mary Ellen
Exactly. And, you know, if there’s a lack of FOMO, you know, you feel like you’re missing out on something and, you know, sending your husband with the baby to the doctor, that’s not always the best idea.
Lindsey
No, I can attest to that. You are absolutely right. So I feel like you might have a window over here somewhere, but going back to this idea of hiring a
For different positions within your company, what are some of the key roles within your firm for which you would consider hiring remotely?
And are there any roles that need to be in office?
Mary Ellen
So there are no roles in my office that cannot be remote. However, with that being said, depending on someone’s experience, we prefer someone who has a little bit less experience as an attorney to be in the office.
But we have them coming in at a hybrid capacity so that they have the support of the more senior attorneys, because it’s a lot easier to run into somebody’s office with, quote, unquote, emergency, as opposed to hoping that they’re going to answer on the Slack channel.
Lindsey
Right. And that’s a great point. And so since you are able to hire remotely, do you still stick to your geographic area when you’re hiring?
Or do you open up that range to other areas? Clearly, for hiring lawyers. So it’s a matter of being licensed in a certain practice area and a certain geography.
But for other support roles, is that something that you try to be geographically exclusive to where you are, or do you open that up nationally?
Mary Ellen
No, so I’ve actually had people in support roles not in my geographic area dating back to 2015. So they don’t have to be in our geographic area.
Certainly within New York, we have our own diversity in, there are definitely things that are different if someone’s from Florida or someone’s from Idaho, that they may not completely understand in New York.
So we do try to, you know, have some education about the geographic areas, if it’s necessary in somebody’s role, when they might say like, oh, this person needs a doctor, you know, which doctor do they, should we refer them to?
Or which doctor, you know, would be good for them? So it’s like, all right. Pull out the map, and these are the doctors in that area.
Certainly a lot more, you know, it’s a lot more helpful with Google and Google Maps nowadays, too.
Right. And so when you are hiring outside of your direct area where people can’t necessarily come in and do an interview in office, where do you go to find the right candidates?
Mary Ellen
So depending on the candidates that we’re looking for, for attorneys, we’ve looked on LinkedIn, Indeed, Simplicity, law schools. So I try to open it up to a lot of different hiring boards.
Then for other candidates, I’ve gone to agencies, done some temp to hire agencies, some headhunters. So there’s a lot of different opportunities out there to find the right people.
We do a lot of do-it-yourself, as I say, because oftentimes I find I’ve got a little bit of, like, I want to say female intuition, but I have a good sense of people, listen, I’ve made a lot of mistakes over time, usually when I’m rushed to hire.
But for the most part, I get a feeling about a person, whether I think they’re going to be good or bad.
Lindsey
And so much of that does come down to chemistry. And one of my favorite HR quotes that I forget who said it was, hire hard, manage easy.
And so taking that extra time to make sure that the chemistry is right and that the person has the right skills for the job and is going to be a great asset for your company is going to pay off the long run in terms of the management of that person or whatever team that they are coming to be a part of.
So I think that you’re right. It’s difficult to make those decisions sometimes when it’s in a rush. So taking that extra time to make sure this is the right person for the job is always a good use of time.
And so what are some of the bigger challenges that you have to remote management once somebody is on board?
Mary Ellen
So training. think training. Training is always a big problem for everybody. We’ve worked pretty hard to try to create a great training program, but with everything, you know, there’s always bumps in the road.
And every time that we hire someone and we train again, we’re trying to really hone in on the best of the best.
We hire outside trainers. We have people internally training. So we’re getting the right mix. So, but training doesn’t stop after that three or four weeks of onboard training, which is something I think a lot of companies forget.
We forget sometimes. So we are consistently trying to have engaging training programs for our team, asking them for feedback about things that they would like to learn.
So I think one of the things is training. Another thing is you don’t have the same team camaraderie in the office where you’re meeting, you know, at the water, you know.
So we always encourage people, like, take 10 minutes. And it’s in half a cup of coffee with someone, but we also do once a month game day and somebody runs it.
So we’ll spend about two hours, um, doing game day and it was, uh, named that tune last month. So, you know, it’s like a lot of fun and people are excited to, to play and put the, you know, together.
it’s one of the ways that we do some team building. Um, we did March Madness. Um, so, you know, it’s just trying to figure out like, what would you do in office to build the team camaraderie?
Because we do work better as a team in our, um, area of the law. So we work more, I know that some people it’s easy enough to just take a case and run it through, you know, a few people, but for us, a lot of people in a lot of hands are on a file.
So we don’t want people to say, well, that’s not my job. It’s so-and-so’s job. but you know, and, and, you know, working remote has also decreased.
I wouldn’t say it gets rid of complete office. Office drama, but it certainly decreases office drama a lot, which has been really helpful.
So I do appreciate that, that, you know, we don’t have the same type of office drama that I’ve experienced when I’ve been in office with other firms or other places where I used to work.
Um, when we were in office, we always had a small, small team. And when there would be a dynamic that didn’t quite fit, it was always a little difficult.
Um, so this makes it better in that, you know, we’re not managing 30 personalities in one space.
Lindsey
Right. You kind of get the best of all worlds where you get to build that team camaraderie and, you know, invest in, you know, that fun time together without necessarily, you know, oh, well, you know, Nancy wore these shoes with that, you know, whatever.
Uh, and so you get it, you get to miss out on a lot of that. And my hat is off to you because building camaraderie in a remote environment is not.
An easy thing to do. And a lot of companies, law firms, you know, what have you, will say, okay, well, we have Slack, you guys can talk to each other through that.
Here are the things that you need to get through for the week, do it, you know, during these hours on your time, you know, and then, you know, go forth and conquer.
But being intentional about building that camaraderie and building a corporate culture that people want to be a part of is so helpful, because it will make your team want to stay long term, they feel more invested in each other, they feel more invested in the firm.
And by building those relationships internally, that will only benefit your clients down the road. So I think that that is wonderful, that you have taken the initiative to intentionally build that corporate culture, even with remote hires.
Mary Ellen
Yeah, we try, you know, sometimes we’re doing better than others. And I forgot, you know, like we do a weekly quiz.
John’s one of the attorneys here, he creates like, you know, quiz, like last week, it was Like, what’s your favorite, like, chip?
And then we do, like, different, you know, just different surveys and things like that. And they’re fun, and everyone looks forward to them.
Lindsey
And we actually have something similar on our team. We have the Optimize My Form question of the week. And we have one guy who is in charge of creating all of these questions.
And sometimes they are, you know, what’s your favorite ice cream flavor? But, you know, other times they can kind of get a little bit deeper.
And, you know, it’s a life philosophy questions. And it’s funny, just, you know, by this one question, you get to know your teammates so well.
But I really like your idea of the game day. think that would be a lot of fun. Just, you know, one day a month and, you know, say, okay, we’re going to, you know, cut loose and play a game for an hour or two.
Mary Ellen
Yeah, and it is, and everyone looks forward to it.
Lindsey
That’s great. Well, let’s talk about PILMMA for a little bit. What is your favorite part of PILMMA?
Mary Ellen
So I think my favorite part of PILMMA is that I have the opportunity to be in a room with people.
Who are the best and brightest in their field and learn from them, work with them, and teach them. So it’s such an interesting dynamic to be in the PILMMA Mastermind because I’m in a group where I have people who have more experience and are older than I am, people with less experience who are younger than I am, and it is nice to have mentors of all, you know, ages.
So it has been such a nice experience to sit there and just be able to learn, just to be able to learn and take it all in.
And then also have a group of people who are cheering for you, who really genuinely are just so happy when you have successes.
Lindsey
Well, and that community that you can lean into, and whether it is your cheerleaders, your mentors, and I love the point that you made where, you know, people of all ages are coming to this, lawyers who have all
Different levels of experience. Those who have been in the game for 30 years have learned a lot of what works, what doesn’t work.
And you have these young lawyers who are hungry and innovative and have really novel ideas all coming together just to share this information with each other and to lean on each other.
Mary Ellen
It’s a really beautiful thing. Yeah. And we all experience the same issues. Again, with the remote hiring, I call it labor relation issues, client issues, money issues, you name it, systems issues.
So we’re all running into the same problems and there’s no need to recreate the wheel. So someone has been through it or someone has an idea of how to help you through it and you don’t have to go through it with blinders and you don’t always, I don’t always, I know for sure have the best or the perfect idea.
And then someone will say something that’s so simple and you’re like, wait, I totally missed that.
Lindsey
And sometimes it is. Those simple ideas that just make all the difference of the world. And so, well, thank you so much for coming on the show today.
Mary Ellen
And I’m really looking forward to seeing you out in Denver in a couple of weeks. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me, Lindsey.
And I cannot wait to meet you in person.
