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Levin & Perconti is a leading personal injury law firm based in Chicago. Joining us today is managing partner Margaret Battersby Black. Margaret is an award-winning attorney who has obtained many large verdicts and settlements including record ones for her clients especially in the areas of nursing home and medical malpractice cases at Levin & Perconti.
Margaret is committed to the advancement of women in the legal profession and serves as a mentor to law students and younger lawyers. In 2023 she was bestowed the “Carole K. Bellows Women of Influence” award which honors those who are advocates for action addressing women’s issues and promote involvement by women in the legal community at all levels. Additionally, Margaret will be installed as the 3rd Vice President of ITLA, ascending to the presidency in 2028 as the organization’s 75th president. She will become the 4th woman president in the organization’s history.
Today, she’s going to talk with us about what it’s like being both a personal injury attorney and a mom with two young kids.
Visit Margaret online here: https://www.levinperconti.com/attorneys/margaret-p-battersby-black/.
See all episodes or subscribe to the Personal Injury Marketing Minute here: https://optimizemyfirm.com/podcasts/.
Transcription:
Lindsey:
Welcome to the Personal Injury Marketing Minute, where we quickly cover the hot topics in the legal marketing world. I’m your host, Lindsey Busfield.
Every year, more and more women have been joining the legal profession. According to the ABA, women now comprise 41% of all lawyers in the United States.
With women now making up over 56% of all law school students, this trend is only expected to escalate. But women face some hurdles in their careers that men simply don’t, at least not to the same degree.
This is especially true when it comes to balancing motherhood and a high-pressure career. To be clear, many male lawyers are amazing fathers who are actively engaged in their kids’ lives, and y’all deserve support and praise too.
But as women continue to join the legal profession in droves, it is important to be mindful of the challenges and opportunities to provide support as we push forward in our path to legal excellence.
Margaret:, an award-winning… Attorney from Levin & Perconti joins us today to discuss life as a personal injury attorney and a mom with two young children.
In 2023, she was bestowed the Carol K. Bellows Women of Influence Award, which honors those who advocate for women’s issues and promote women’s involvement in the legal community.
Thank you so much for joining us today.
Margaret:
Thanks, Lindsey. I’m glad to be here.
Lindsey:
Well, tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got started in your legal career.
Margaret:
Sure. So I’ve actually been working in my legal career, and this is now my 18th year, I think, 17th year as a lawyer.
But I actually started with this firm as a law clerk back in 2006. And so backing up a little bit, I grew up in Michigan.
I come from a family of lawyers and judges, and according to my parents, I always had a sense of fairness and justice.
And so I think that was probably a challenge for my parents, but they understood that maybe it meant that I had some spirit that was destined to, you know, take me to into the field of law.
And so I did, actually, law was not my first career. I went to the University of Michigan, had the great fortune of getting into their undergrad business school, and there were a lot of opportunities for me coming out of undergrad to move to Chicago and work at a financial firm.
So I did that for several years. I liked it. I had great opportunities, but I did realize that I probably wasn’t meant to sit at a desk in crunch numbers.
And the idea of law school was always in the back of my mind. My dad had suggested that I take some time off and work.
Work, just make myself distinguishable in the legal marketplace for when I would come out of law school. And so I worked for three years for JPMorgan Chase in Chicago, and then started law school.
When I started, I knew I wasn’t going to become a corporate lawyer or do big law, or I knew I wanted to be a trial lawyer.
I knew I wanted to be in front of people. I knew I wanted to help people. I was pretty sure it wasn’t going to be a prosecutor or, you know, criminal defense lawyer.
And so I had the great fortune of having a conversation in December of 2005 with one of my dad’s best friends from law school, who knew Steve Levin of Levin & Perconti, where I now work.
And he said, you know, reach out to him if you’re interested in something for the summer. You know, he, you know, frequently will hire law clerks.
So I. Reached out. I got an interview, which at the time, apparently I was highly impressive to Steve because I brought a paper copy of my resume and also sent an electronic one in advance.
And back in 2006, don’t know, maybe many people weren’t doing that. So he hired me, funny enough, because we’re doing a podcast right now.
He hired me way back when legal blogging was just kind of taking off. And he had all these great ideas.
He’s a really innovative marketer in the personal injury space, but he could not execute them. And so he hired me to learn how to blog and to just start blogging about different topics.
So that was kind of towards the end of my first year in law school. And I liked working with him.
They needed a full-time law clerk. So I stayed on for the summer. on for the And I think that summer is when I knew that personal injury was probably going to be the right move for me, because I was able to work that summer on a trial that Steve Levin and Mike Bonamart, my current partner, were working on that involved a family, two younger, I’ll say, 20-something daughters who had lost their mom due to neglect in a nursing home.
And just kind of some personal background, when I was 23, I lost my mom in a car accident. And so I was able to relate to what it’s like to be in your 20s and maybe not have gone through some of the milestones with your mom that you were expecting or be able to learn from your mom some of the things that you need to know to become a mom and as you age.
So Steve… And appropriately and softly asked if that was something I was willing to work on, to meet with these women, try to get out of them some good evidence so that we could put their testimony on at trial so that we could bring to the jury what they lost.
And that was really rewarding to me. And I really bonded with these women because we had been through similar experiences where there’s a sudden loss.
And, you know, just on that note, since we’re talking today about women in personal injury, I think that that is one really strong skill set that women bring to this profession is, you know, that we typically have empathy and we, you know, are able to maybe, you know, better navigate people through times of crisis, just with maybe some motherly instincts.
It doesn’t mean you have to be a mother to have those motherly instincts, of course, but because at the time that I was.
Doing that, I was not. But that was, we won that case. The clients were, you know, thrilled. And I had a great time working with Mike and Steve.
And I told my dad, you know, I think, I think I want to do what you do, because my dad is a personal injury lawyer, too.
And so that was always in the back of my mind, too. Meeting clients who he had helped throughout his life, you know, who still kept in touch and thanked him for changing their lives.
And it felt a lot better than crunching numbers at a bank. Well, and it’s clearly a natural fit for you.
Lindsey:
You come from a, you know, long line of lawyers, and you have the family support there. And it sounds like you made a real personal connection when you were choosing your field and realizing that this was absolutely the right type of practice for you.
And so you have your legal career, and you are also balancing, clearly, motherhood at the same time.
Margaret:
So tell us a little bit about. about your family and about your kids. Sure. Well, today, I have an 11-year-old, Evelyn.
She will be a middle schooler next year. And a 10-year-old, William, so he’ll be in fifth grade. And they’re at a great age right now where they still like me and want to hang out with me, but they can do things for themselves.
So, like, you know, Evelyn can go to the corner grocery store and pick up some things for me. And, you know, William, he can take the trash out.
He’s not quite as adventuresome with his willingness to, you know, do things for me. But it’s been a long road, you know, as you know.
You know, they were infants and toddlers. They’re 19 months apart. So certainly integrating, you know, working at a law firm and kind of, you know, I don’t really, I would say I probably didn’t really ever.
I my pace in terms of what I was able to handle with trials and workload. I certainly had a lot of support and help at home.
I had, you know, Annie. My husband decided around COVID time that he would retire and he would be our childcare solution.
And that obviously allows me great latitude to be able to do what I want. And, you know, obviously I had a lot of support at Levin & Perconti.
So when I went on maternity leave, it was the first maternity leave that they had experience with a lawyer in 21 years.
Lindsey:
Oh, wow.
Margaret:
Yeah. So my partner, Susan Novosad, who was one of the founder, founding lawyers of the firm, she had three kids.
So she went through it, but it had been a while. And I just remember, you know, I. I love what I do so much that, although obviously I needed maternity leave and I loved maternity leave and I, you know, wanted to take it and bond with the kids, like it was very hard for me to completely disconnect.
And I have, you know, really great colleagues who would keep me filled in, but still would cover things for me so, you I could spend time with my kids.
But, you know, I did stay connected when I was on maternity leave because I feel like, you know, a lot of my clients are like my own family and I want to make sure that they’re getting, you know, navigated through the process.
But I certainly did also get the time to bond with my kids and, you know, do all of those things.
And I’ll tell you, being a mom, I think is a much harder job than being a lawyer.
Lindsey:
I can absolutely relate. I have two young kiddos myself. I have a three-year-old daughter and a six-year-old daughter, and I love hearing you say that they are a little bit more self-sufficient in the years to come.
Because my three-year-old was very much up at 515 this morning and, you know, wanting to go to the grocery store and go get bananas.
And I had to explain that the grocery store was not open yet. So I’m glad to hear you say that it gets a little bit easier in the years to come.
Margaret:
But no, the day that you know you really, you kind of made it as a mom is when your youngest can turn on the remote and like make a piece of toaster, get some cereal, because then you might get to sleep in until like seven, eight o’clock, which is, I’m sure something that you’re not doing right now.
Lindsey:
Not as often as I would like. And they’re almost there. My six-year-old has been self-sufficient since she was two and a half.
She had all that figured out. I put all the right snacks at the grabbing distance for her. But the three-year-old very much likes to be social and yeah.
Have, you know, share my cup of coffee in the morning. So it’s, they’re just very different personalities. And it, and that in itself is a challenge to juggle, you know, much less trying to juggle, you know, motherhood as a whole with a career, but I can absolutely relate to what you’re saying, where when you have kids and you go on maternity leave, you have two different parts of your personality that are at odds trying to be engaged at the same time.
You have, you’re trying to bond and connect and you have these maternal instincts that, you know, bring out some very soft parts of your personality.
And then you also have a highly intellectual wanting to be engaged and stimulated and contribute in more cerebral adult ways.
And it can kind of tear you apart if you don’t have the right supports in place.
Margaret:
Yeah, definitely.
Lindsey:
And so what, you know, as you came out of maternity leave and started to kind of navigate back into Yeah.
Full-time legal space. What were some of the biggest struggles that you faced as you were developing in your legal career?
Margaret:
Well, you know, this is, I wouldn’t call this, this is more of on like a micro level. I remember when I came back, the biggest challenge was getting myself to leave the office because when you’ve got infants and toddlers, they’re, you know, they’re in bed for the night, like 6.30 to 7.30.
And I was used to, you know, working until at least then. And then even sometimes, you know, grabbing dinner with colleagues or going to legal events.
So I had to kind of like plan out when to leave. And, you know, at the time that I had Evelyn, so this is 2013, we were equipped that if I needed to work from home, I could log in remotely.
And I did that a lot in her, you know, in the first several months that, that. Following maternity leave that I was like kind of learning how to balance it because I don’t like leaving things unfinished, but I would be working on something and then it would be, oh my gosh, like if I don’t leave now, I’m not going to say goodnight to her.
And so I’d have to just leave it and say, come back when she’s in bed. So that was a challenge.
I always say, you know, I’m going to leave and then I just find myself getting caught up in things.
So disciplining myself to be able to do that, that was a challenge. I will say that the hardest part about being a trial lawyer and having kids is that, you know, I know at some point on this podcast, I assume that the concept of work-life balance will come up, right?
And I do think for what I do, I am able to, on many, many days, plan my day out so that I have that balance.
Today, for example, I’m going to be leaving at 4.30 so I can go. be Will I have to log on this evening just to kind of catch up on things?
Absolutely. But I can do that today because I’m not in court. I’m not on trial. When you’re on trial and you are a personal injury lawyer, you know, I mean, forget about seeing anyone for the duration of the trial.
If you do, great. But you are, you know, I’m up at 445 so I can be in the office at six o’clock and I’m there until my kids go to bed and maybe I’ll see them on the weekends, but I’ve got to work.
And so that is challenging. And I think that that is one of the reasons why it’s difficult to keep women in the profession once they have kids is that when you are on trial or when you have court or something like that, there isn’t flexibility.
You know, you can’t just say I’m going to work from home. You can’t call off. Um, I mean, obviously having support is important because, you know, we’re all human and, you know, people can be sympathetic if you’re absolutely in a bind, but you’re in the middle of a trial, like you’re stuck.
Um, and so that was a, that was a transition to, um, my kids, as they started to get older, started to learn what trial is.
And, you know, if I would say I’m going on trial, they would, you know, they’d be a little down.
Um, but the great thing about what I do is that I would be able to, and I, today, you know, they’re obviously more, um, they’re older and more sophisticated in their understanding of, of the world.
Um, I’m able to say like, I’m going to, to trial because there’s a little boy who has a really bad brain injury and he’s not going to be able to grow up like you and go to college and and have a job.
Um, and he needs me right now. And they’re starting to understand that.
Lindsey:
And that is a hard thing to explain. And, I mean. Especially when you have young children, those are concepts that they are faced with at a really young age when they’re raised in this environment.
And even if you can rationalize your way through it, even if they can really kind of start to put the pieces together, it’s a challenge and there’s no way around it.
It’s sad when you feel like you’re missing the milestones for your kids because obviously trial isn’t being scheduled around when your daughter’s dance recital is.
It’s not being scheduled around those big milestones in life. And that’s a sacrifice that as professionals, especially as personal injury attorneys, you have to be willing to make.
And it doesn’t mean that you don’t love your family or love your kids any less. It’s just a harsh reality that women in this industry have to face.
Um, so I, I wish you all, all of the love in your family, all the love in that, because that.
That’s. And so I know that you’re able to work from home a bit, and that’s a great way that your law firm can help support you.
What other supports do you have professionally that helps take the load off a little bit? Sure.
Margaret:
Well, I mean, there are definitely some structured organizations. I’m a member of the Illinois Women’s Bar Association. The Illinois Trilers Association has a specific group that we call the Women’s Caucus.
So I’m regularly surrounded by women who are going through the same things. So in a lot of ways, that’s helpful because, you know, sometimes you have good tips or good, you can give good tips and feel good about helping someone else, or you can get some good tips.
And just talking through things and knowing that other people are going through it and trying to brainstorm ways. To navigate and, you know, strategize is great.
I would say at Live in Empower County, we almost have like an informal kind of mentoring program because we do have so many women who are working here, many of whom are mothers, many who have navigated their way through maternity leaves while here, or some who have come over maybe from other firms after having kids, but still, you know, have the demands of school conferences and, you know, sporting events and sick kids.
And so I think we’re all very supportive of one another. And, you know, the other thing I think is just kind of being able to encourage people who are going through, you know, days or even weeks or trials where they think like, I’m not like, I can’t do this anymore.
You know, I need to say, I’ve I don’t think I can make it work just to kind of say, like, you can make it work.
We’re here for you. But you know what? I mean, some people, they can’t make it work. And there’s still a role for people in personal injury law who maybe don’t have the flexibility to be able to try cases.
So I think that’s another thing that we’ve done is we’ve been able to accommodate people who maybe, you know, can’t commit to that kind of a schedule.
And then the other thing, of course, is, you know, our policy right now in the office, and this has obviously changed since before COVID and then through COVID, is that lawyers are allowed if they need to a day, one day a week to work from home.
Certainly, if something comes up, you know, it’s flexible where you could work from home more than one day. But on the other hand, when you are in
The office, and you’re surrounded by, like I am, really smart lawyers, many of whom are women, but also many of the men fall into this category too, who are parents and who are, you know, going through different things on their cases, and you can see and interact with people.
There are these just little micro interactions that occur when you’re in an office setting that are kind of important to both your morale and also just your development, because someone comes into my office because I’m here and starts talking about a case, and maybe I’ve had this exact case or I have a brief or something like that.
If we’re sitting at home and we’re independently working, and I don’t have an occasion to see that particular person, then, you know, that interaction doesn’t happen.
So I do feel that it is important to be in the office and as a managing person. Partner, obviously, even if I don’t have anything that takes me to the office, like port or a deposition, just being here and being a resource is important.
So while, you know, flexibility and the ability for, you know, women to be able to, you know, fulfill their second role or their second job as moms is important, it’s also important to be around to support each other and to see each other and to have those interactions.
Lindsey:
Well, and it’s fulfilling to have those interactions. So I I find that when I’m talking with my colleagues, and there’s a very different atmosphere in person, or when we are, you know, on Zoom, because we are all remote, but having that face to face interaction, or sometimes my business partner, Len and I will just have Zoom on and we’ll be working and just be like, Oh, well, yeah, did you see this or that, and then be working on something else.
But just having that accessibility fosters conversations and creativity. That you wouldn’t necessarily have if you are separated and isolated at home.
It feels almost like an intrusion if you are pinging somebody who is at their house. It’s like you’re going and knocking on their door as opposed to being in the same bubble together.
So I absolutely support, especially within law firms, being able to collaborate and get together when it’s for the benefit of your clients and for the benefit of the growth of your law firm.
So that’s an excellent point there. And then having that camaraderie, having the other women and men who are parents who are kind of in the same boat as they’re trying to navigate parenthood as well as being legal professionals.
There are tips and tricks beyond just what’s going on with these cases. It’s, okay, well, how am I going to be intentional about making sure that I have time for the baseball game and to make sure that I have time with my spouse and have time set aside to…
Do right by my cases. So having that intentionality. And yes, let’s talk about work-life balance. How do you handle the expectations of working those long hours while also handling the responsibilities of being a mother and a spouse and all of these different things?
What do you do to make sure that you are structuring your time appropriately, both to make sure that you have the hours in for each segment of your life, but also for your mental health?
Margaret:
Sure. Well, I think, you know, I hate to say it, but there is a misconception about work-life balance. I happen to think that if you like what you’re doing and you’re passionate about what you’re doing and it is a part of your identity and you like going to work, that I think you feel less, I don’t know if I say guilty or, if I would say, you don’t think about a
Work-life balance is quite as much as if you don’t like your job, it doesn’t matter if you’re there for eight hours or like 14, right?
So, you know, I like, I get up and I like coming to work. Are there times where I really wish I could prioritize something else?
Absolutely. But a lot of times I can do that. And I think it’s, I think there’s this misconception that, you know, work-life balance means like absolutes, like you only work a certain number of hours or you, you know, you leave by X time.
It’s really like a give and take. You know, if I know I’ve got a baseball game, like I told you today, and I’m going to have to brave the commute home for that, then I’ve got to get up early and like, you know, put in the work or I got to work late, you know, yesterday, or maybe I’ll have to work a little bit this weekend, or you’ve got to be willing to give and take.
And that is how I make it work. I mean, you can go to all of your kids’ events if you want to go to all of your kids’ events.
obviously, with the exception that you maybe are on trial or due in court or something. But then you’ve got to actually, on the back end, you’ve got to give some things up, right?
You know, I always say the first thing that I give up when I’m really busy at work and I want to do things with my kids is working out.
I mean, that’s important for your mental health and your physical health. But I like doing stuff with my kids.
I like what I do for work. So I’m filled with that as well. Social life, you know, the social life I engage in these days is usually going to legal events or chatting with the parents at baseball, soccer, and dance competitions.
And so, and that’s going to change, right? I mean, I’m going to miss it when it’s gone. But that’s the, you know, that’s the state of my life I’m in right now.
So, you know, the way I think you can have this work-life balance is it’s neither is going to be less demanding on you.
You’ve got to be prepared. That is still put in the work and the time and, you know, to develop your career and to help your clients.
But you can do it at non-traditional times these days with all the technological, you know, tools that we have.
It’s just, you got to be willing to do it. And I think people who struggle with that concept are people who don’t understand that you’ve got to, on the back end, make sure that you keep your commitment.
You know, I think people sometimes want to, you know, they want to go to work during certain hours and then they want to take off work to attend important family or, you know, child care activities.
But then they get stressed out because they didn’t finish something at work and maybe they’re unwilling to then log back on and finish it.
And, you know, then they’re, the next day the stress builds up. And it’s not a perfect science. And of course I have, I still stress.
Struggle with it, but that’s my mentality. And so I think that helps when you come to that realization that like, you know, when they say it’s like a balance, it’s like, well, there’s always going to be your commitment that you’re going to have to make to your, your profession.
You can balance when you do that sometimes and be able to, you know, dip into everything. But obviously sacrifices have to be made somewhere.
Lindsey:
Well, and I think it goes back to a point that you had made earlier, which is you need to have the right expectations for your career.
And this is not, it’s not easy. And it’s not something that everybody can do. And you are fortunate enough to have a law firm that supports you.
You have a husband who is able to give more of his time to, to family and be the support there and be an anchor there.
And that all balances out and not everybody is able to build that kind of lifestyle. Ah, and so I think it’s important that listeners here understand that they need to have appropriate expectations and be very cognizant of what assets they do have in their life and what that allows for them to be able to do and not do.
So it’s not going to be a perfect world. And yes, you need to be able to pour from, you know, X amount from a certain cup.
But if you don’t have those cups there, then sacrifices are going to have to be made. And a lot of times, historically, it’s been women who have had to make the sacrifice of their careers to stay home and fulfill that child development role.
And it has turned the personal injury world, especially because of trial, into very much a boys club for a very long time.
And men have dominated that field. And as more women are starting to come into this field, it’s important to recognize.
Their contributions and the sacrifices that they make. And they bring a skill set and unique qualities that are unique and special.
So can you talk to me a little bit about your take on the unique qualities that women bring to the personal injury field?
Margaret:
Sure. And, you know, this is a conversation. So something you said kind of resonated with me. I feel like a little bit like I’m talking right now, like, oh, I’ve got it all under control.
And, you know, it’s so I just do what I have to do. I mean, there are days where I am disappointing everyone in my life, my family, my friends, my co-workers, like, make no mistake about it.
But I know that. And like you said, there’s expectations, right? Like, I know that that’s to happen. And so do I like it?
Does it make me feel good? No, of course not. But I know, like, we’ll move. And, you know, the next day we’ll be better.
And so on that note, I think along the lines of kind of transitioning from this work-life balance, which I’m putting in quotes for those who can’t see us, and the unique qualities that women bring, I think it’s interesting that generationally, I think there’s a little bit of a shift.
I know that a lot of the men that I work with who, you know, have young kids or who have just gone through, you know, their first delivery or, you know, their wives are pregnant, men do a lot more these days.
And there is more of a sharing of the, you know, household responsibilities. And so that certainly is helpful. And also, it is kind of a little, a little bit even the playing field in that, you know, some of the younger men that I work with, Thank Thank
They’ve got to go to child care obligations, and they’ve got to say they can’t do certain things because, you know, wife is at a business meeting, or they’ve got to be home for the kids, too.
So I think, you know, that has leveled the playing field, just some societal changes. But anyhow, I think it is important to have women at your firm.
I mean, first of all, a lot of personal injury clients are women. My firm happens to handle a lot of areas where I think are more, like, women-dominated in terms of the victims and even the plaintiffs.
So we do a huge practice of birth injury. So obviously, we’ve got women who, you know, have gone through the pregnancy, labor and delivery, and something’s gone wrong.
And now they’re mothers with disabled children. I’m fortunate that I don’t have disabled children, but I’m a mom. And so I certainly have that empathy gone through the labor process.
I know the right questions to ask. We also handle a lot of nursing home abuse and neglect cases, and I’m sure it won’t be a surprise to you that in a lot of these situations, the women are the caregivers for their elderly parents or the point people, and so they’re the ones who call when something goes wrong, or they’re the ones who have the most knowledge about what was going on at the nursing home.
So having women be able to talk to women who have gone through the same thing, that’s important. There’s also having a woman in a courtroom, right?
I think that most law firms these days recognize that having a woman on your team is important for a number of reasons.
We may notice something about jurors that the men don’t. What I’ve noticed in a lot of courtrooms that I’ve been in where there are women who are moms is that of have have Thank
We tend to play kind of like the mom for the courtroom, right? So it’s like, you know, if a juror looks like they need to go to the bathroom, maybe we’ll ask the judge for a bathroom break, or, you know, someone is raising their hand, but everyone else is too busy to see it, you know, we can call that out.
And, you know, just, there’s something about having like a woman in charge of your trial team, just making sure that everyone is taken care of, you know, people are fed, people, you know, know their responsibilities, if someone’s having a bad day.
Now, on the other hand, think about how much mental work that actually takes, right? And if you’re doing that, and you’re also in a courtroom, and you’re trying to, you know, cross-examine witnesses, or give your opening statement, or make arguments to the judge, that is a lot going on.
So just the kinds of skills that women bring into the courtroom. are just so multifaceted. And it’s hard because it’s hard to turn off, you know, your mom hat when you’re in there and you see that someone’s got like a string on their dress and you want to brush it off or whatever it is.
But, you know, I happen to think that like sometimes that may score some points with the jury, right? And of course, the juries these days are comprised, you know, typically equally, if not more of women.
Now, on the other hand, there are some who believe that women are each other’s harshest critics. So that brings up some interesting things about, you know, you’re always being watched in the courtroom, what you wear, how you do your hair, you know, your makeup, shoes.
And, you know, that’s another whole aspect that you’ve got to really be concerned with when you’re trying a case and you’re in front of a jury and a judge and you’re a woman.
People like it or not, for some, they want to know what you’re going to wear the next day. I mean, that’s just, like, what I’ve learned from talking to juries after, you know, having a case is that there are some people who talk about that in deliberation.
Lindsey:
Well, and it’s funny that you mentioned that. We did a podcast a couple years back on what to wear to court, and that made for a really interesting episode.
And it is, women’s fashion is much more of a consideration because nobody really cares what color tie Joe is going to be wearing to court the next day.
But if there’s a short skirt or a shortcut blouse or, you know, what color, what fit, what cut, like, all of those things are very intentional in women’s fashion and are built to be noticed.
So it is, it brings a very different dynamic, um, where you’re not just an attorney, but you’re also a model and you’re a mom and you’re taking care of all of these different things.
And it’s trying to juggle and balance all of this while trying to, you know, sway. Sway a jury, know, convince a jury and empathize with them and bring all of these pieces together for your case.
It goes so much further beyond the actual components of the case itself. So it clearly, clearly a struggle, but, you know, the right attorneys, right women in these roles can, can really bring a very powerful force when they are managing it appropriately and using all of these pieces to their advantage.
And so clearly when, when trying a case, there are these different skills and unique values that women bring to that.
But did you find ever in the marketing or in when you are vetting a prospective client that prospective clients are drawn more to you because you are a woman?
Margaret:
Yes, I definitely have experienced that. I mean, I’ve also been on kind of like the, the opposite of end of end of that particular.
Particularly in the beginning of my career. You know, the other day I had someone who called me and said they looked up my profile online and I was wearing pearls.
And, you know, for some reason that just resonated with them and they like thought they could trust me and they wanted to hire me.
And, you know, we do also handle a lot of sensitive topics. We handle a lot of abuse or assault cases in, like, for example, massage facilities.
And a lot of times people will call and say they want to speak to a woman, you know, at least initially.
And then I’ve also had moments in my career, I’ll tell you, granted they were earlier, but I wouldn’t be surprised, honestly, like, if they still crop up, even as I established myself and I’m a managing partner here, where I’ve said I need to bring in, like, the great-haired male.
I need them. To hear exactly what I’m saying from this guy to try to see if I can, you know, get them to understand what we think they should do in a, you know, decision making in a case.
In early in my career, I would be called actually to sign up cases by some of my male colleagues.
Like, we want you to go out. We think, you know, we think that you’ll resonate with them. And, you know, like, we think a woman needs to be the one to sell them and or, you know, to partner up with someone else who’s going out.
So, yeah, I mean, I think more and more, especially with what I do, because, you know, we deal in this human misery and suffering.
People understand the assets that women bring to the cases and, you know, to the legal team.
Lindsey:
Well, and it’s undeniable. think women definitely bring empathy. They bring the ability to multitask. They. The ability to be a part of, to relate with a prospective client or an existing client on a situation that sometimes a man just can’t, especially when it comes to birth injury or it comes to something that deals with female anatomy that a man just can’t necessarily relate to.
So having a woman on the team, being in a leadership role in the team is a huge asset. And as we leverage the strengths of the female attorneys, it’s also important to build supports for them.
So what can law firms do to support their female employees?
Margaret:
So one of the things that, you know, I’ve obviously talked about the, just kind of giving you the flexibility for women to like stay in the profession and stay in this role, which is giving flexibility when you’re not on trial, right?
I mean, because you know, there’s going to be zero flexibility when you’re on trial. So doing that. Fathom encouraging women to join groups of women that are supporting each other in the same roles.
I think marketing your women, right? Because we talked about the fact that there are clients who are looking for women or, you know, who want to see some diversity when they look at what the law firm’s bringing.
My law firm has been great about doing that. mean, first of all, just for me personally, know, Steve Levin, the founder of the firm, kind of, and I had a talk when I was, when I had proven myself capable to him, you know, as a lawyer and someone he wanted to work with, about, you know, trying to take advantage of my role as one of the few young women that were, you know, trying cases and getting results in this industry.
So, you know, giving them opportunities to speak at conferences, to You know, network with judges and other women lawyers to handle big cases, to be on, you know, winning teams and then to give them the credit when they’re on these winning teams that allows them to continue to market themselves.
So that’s, you know, obviously very important. I’ll say this as someone who I can say maybe now is like older and wiser, but I definitely got bullied when I was a younger female in the legal profession.
And I remember a couple of times having to like call in big brother, call in dad, and have them come and sit in a deposition or go to court with me and kind of like fend off some of the more aggressive lawyers who were maybe taking advantage of my youth and, you know, that I was a woman and my blonde hair.
And I do that now for some of the younger. Women. I have male partners who have called up men from other firms who are opposite and said, why are you picking on the young women at our firm?
You know, like we’ve gotten a lot of reports of you, you know, obstructing depositions or, you know, being nasty and it’s not happening with me.
So, like, what gives? And just kind of like making sure that, you know, we’re protected a little bit. Now, you know, I don’t really need protection anymore, but it’s really challenging being the young female lawyer in this room of, you know, men who have been doing it for, you know, 30 years, you know, who think they need to tell you how it is.
Luckily, like that kind of thing for me just kind of inspires me more to, like, be better and be more prepared and just stand my ground.
But it’s not that easy for everyone. So that kind of support is important too.
Lindsey:
Absolutely. Having advocates for you, mean, and regardless of gender or age or anything, but having a team that really advocates for a level playing field for all of the attorneys to be able to go do their job, get the depositions, and build the cases that are going to be serving their clients.
That is 1000% the right place to start and the right thing to do. Well, thank you so much for joining us today.
I really appreciate the insights that you had to share.
Margaret:
Yeah, it was my pleasure. I’d love to come back if you’ve got a new topic for me.
Lindsey:
Absolutely. We’d love to have you back sometime.
Margaret:
All right. Thanks, Lindsey.
