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Sterling Hawkins joins us today to discuss his “No Matter What” approach to success. This mindset has helped him grow through some of the most challenging transitions in his life, and he is sharing this mindset with the PILMMA community as the keynote speaker.
Growth is uncomfortable, but it is an inevitable part of change. This is unavoidable if you want your law firm to grow. But how do you navigate the discomfort so that you can thrive in your firm and successfully achieve your goals?
In this episode, we discuss:
- Sterling’s “No Matter What” approaching that stems from unwavering commitment to goals
- Embracing and growing through discomfort
- The importance of external accountability
This episode and the next several will feature PILMMA speakers in our “Spotlight on PILMMA” podcast series.
Visit Sterling online here: https://www.sterlinghawkins.com/.
We’ll be at PILMMA Super Summit 2025: https://optimizemyfirm.com/pilmma-2025/.
See all episodes or subscribe to the Personal Injury Marketing Minute here: https://optimizemyfirm.com/podcasts/.
Transcript:
Welcome to the personal injury marketing minute where we quickly cover the hot.
Topics in the legal marketing world. I’m your host, Lindsey Busfield. As business owners, we didn’t just wake up one morning and go, I think I’ll be a lawyer, or I think I’ll run an SEO agency.
We had visions for success. We had inherent goals, even if they weren’t 100% hashed out. Maybe your goals have shifted over time, or maybe you’ve reached your initial goals and are building on the results.
Either way, you are listening to this podcast because you want more. Not only that, but you’re willing to take steps and time out of your day to learn how to get to your next level.
Continuing our Spotlight on Pilma series, Sterling Hawkins:, Pilma’s keynote speaker, joins us today to discuss his upcoming presentation on his no-matter-what approach to success.
STERLING HAWKINS:
Thank you so much for joining us today, Sterling. Lindsey, thanks for having me on. I’m looking forward to diving in together.
Lindsey:
Absolutely. Well, let’s get started with a bit about yourself and about your background.
STERLING HAWKINS:
Yeah, of course. Well, I… I grew up a fifth-generation retailer in my family’s supermarket. From there, I got into the entrepreneurial software tech world and got pretty lucky early on.
I mean, don’t get me wrong, we worked really hard as well, but the first company I founded became part of this Apple Pay before Apple Pay.
Lindsey:
Nice.
STERLING HAWKINS:
And we raised hundreds of millions of dollars. I thought it was only a matter of time until I’d crowned myself the next Steve Jobs.
But when the housing market collapsed, our investment dried up, and things went a totally different direction for me.
Lindsey:
Yeah, that will absolutely make a big shift, and unless you are able to pivot out of that, you can really get bogged down with that first big dip.
STERLING HAWKINS:
Totally. And I did get bogged down for a number of years, just sitting in my self-doubt and self-pity and everything else.
But what I started to realize is that that failure was an opportunity. We learned a lot of things as an organization, what to do in a culture, and then just for myself, what I need to do as an individual to grow.
And it was reflecting on some of those really hard, even dark times that kind of gave me the tool set first for myself, and then for organizations I worked with all over the world to help them grow, regardless of the circumstances.
In other words, no matter what.
Lindsey:
Well, nobody wants to listen to a motivational speaker, if you will, that hasn’t failed hard, because why would anybody who has just succeeded over time be able to speak to business owners and attorneys who are struggling, who are here because they don’t have all the answers?
So I think that that is a great credit to you, that you have that background experience of having the highs as well as having the lows.
So let’s dive in a little bit to that. What is No Matter What all about?
STERLING HAWKINS:
Yeah, well, it just started. There’s this personal mantra to, frankly, get myself out of bed in the morning, like, I’m going to get out of bed tomorrow no matter what.
I’m going to go to the gym no matter what. I’m going to call my creditors no matter what. And I started to realize that when I really made a commitment, like deep inside myself, and I told myself I’m going to do these things regardless of what happens, that I was making forward progress.
And that self-doubt that I still had in spades started to lessen its grip on me just a little bit.
That every time I honored one of those commitments. And so I started to share it. was first with my sister and then some four colleagues and then some entrepreneurs that I knew and then larger companies.
And I started to realize that this framework of committing, committing no matter what. And to be clear, I’m not saying compromise your integrity or values, but really commit with honor to do the things that you say you’re going to do is transformative.
And it became really the base. Basis of everything that we’re doing today to be able to grow regardless of the circumstances, whether there’s problems with regulation changes or staffing issues or global instability.
Those things don’t mean we can’t grow. It just means that we likely have to grow differently than we originally expected.
Lindsey:
And it’s commitments that give us the pathway to be able to do that. Yeah. And that’s a great point.
It’s these commitments. And it’s not necessarily even a commitment to the big picture, which it absolutely can be, but a commitment to each of the goals along the way.
As you said, committed to getting out of bed, going to the gym, calling the creditors, and whether it is making a phone call to somebody who is going to help you with your marketing or filling out a form to change your business name and get a DBA.
There are smaller goals along the way that you have to commit yourself to, no matter what, to continue along that path of growth.
STERLING HAWKINS:
Totally. There’s just plenty of excuses in the world. There just are. Now, maybe more than ever. And the thing is, those excuses are valid.
But what honoring our commitments does actually changes this mechanism in our brain called the reticular activating system, or RAS, R-A-S for short.
And before we commit, that RAS is auto-tuned for survival. It’s looking back into the past, telling us why we can’t, why we shouldn’t, why we’ll fail, why it’d be embarrassing, why we should never commit to anything to begin with.
But when we commit, and really commit in a way where we’re on the line, there’s no going back, it reframes that RAS to look for new openings for action that are literally invisible from where we sit prior.
And it’s when we honor those commitments that we start to see these opportunities for innovation, growth, and breakthrough results that literally are not available to us without those commitments from a biological, neurological standpoint.
Lindsey:
next That’s interesting. How fascinating, just that rewiring that takes place. Well, let’s kind of break this down into some practical terms for the attorneys that are listening here.
And it seems like part of this, you know, clearly is committing to the goals, but first you have to have a goal to commit to.
So what are some suggestions that you have for lawyers in terms of goal setting?
STERLING HAWKINS:
Yeah. Well, I think the biggest thing is that oftentimes discomfort, worry, self-doubt stands in the way of what we actually want to achieve.
And if we’re not paying attention to that, sometimes we make commitments inside of what we’re afraid of, not what we really want to accomplish.
And it ends up being things that we probably know we can already achieve and we take them, but they don’t really light us up inside.
It’s not ultimately what we really want. So I think the first step is understanding what’s in the way of what we really want to achieve.
Could be limited thinking. It could be self-doubt, but taking a moment to set some of those things aside and get present to what it is that I actually want to achieve for myself, my community, my clients, even the world.
And it’s from that place that you can start to see, well, what is it that I am ultimately committed to?
Not just from a mental standpoint, but where does my heart sit? And from that place, I can start to make some decisions, make some commitments that are really going to matter to me as a human being.
And when we have those kinds of commitments, they tend to be unstoppable. If it’s something that just exists in our head is a good idea, we’ll probably falter.
But if it exists in our heart as something that ultimately matters to us, we’ll continue to take those steps forward.
Does that make sense?
Lindsey:
It does, and it sounds like there is probably some soul-searching that needs to come into play before getting to that point, before setting those goals, and really kind of figuring out why you are being driven to whatever this big…
… Your goal is and finding the purpose behind that and what it is that you’re hoping will come of it, both in terms of how it makes you feel, but also how it’s going to change your life in a substantial way or change your firm in a substantial way.
STERLING HAWKINS:
Totally, totally. And I actually don’t think it’s one of those things where I feel like there’s countless quizzes online, like find your why and 10 questions in five minutes.
I don’t think it’s something like that. I actually don’t think we have to find our purpose or our why.
I think it actually exists within us. It’s just buried with all these thoughts and limitations and challenges we’ve run into previously.
To me, it’s more of a long-term process to get out of the way what’s in the way of unleashing that purpose that has been intrinsic within us always.
Lindsey:
Interesting. That is kind of a definitely different approach to finding and setting the goals that are going to be beneficial for you.
And so it sounds like, you know, a lot of this is kind of digging through the things, as you said, are standing in the way.
What are some of the biggest challenges that lawyers do face in terms of getting in their own way? And how can they take steps to grow beyond that?
STERLING HAWKINS:
Yeah, well, I think businesses of any sort, whether they’re legal or otherwise, don’t grow. So humans grow, and it’s that human growth that translates into the business growth, community growth, results growth, growth of any type.
It all starts with us. And any kind of person, we all deal with discomfort of all sorts, but there are really five main things that are in the way for all of us.
The first is an unwillingness to see an alternate reality. That’s not to say that our view is wrong. It’s just probably a partial version of the truth.
And when we can open up our minds to see… A different version, a different perspective, then that gives us some runway for growth that we probably didn’t have access to prior.
The second is self-doubt. We’ve referenced that a couple of times. We all have it. The third is the fear of exposure.
Somebody’s seeing me for who I really am. Many of us are okay sharing all the accolades and the successes and the wins.
But are you just as okay sharing some of the pitfalls or the failures or some of the inadequacies that you might feel about yourself?
The fourth is challenges. And the fifth is the discomfort that I think rules them all, which is the discomfort of the unknown.
Because we will never know exactly what’s going to come next with 100% certainty. Now, we all deal with all five of those things, but one probably rises to the top.
One is probably the biggest thing in our way. And as we can, again, probably in a period of deeper reflection, understand.
And well, what is it that I’m resisting? What is it that I’m fighting? Then we can start to set those things aside to be able to grow in really organic, authentic kinds of ways.
Lindsey:
I think about something that you, the word you keep using, which is, you know, discomfort, it’s uncomfortable. And I think about my own kids.
I’ve got a three-year-old and a six-year-old girl, and they are constantly in pain because their bodies are growing and they are cranky.
And they’re whiny and they want snacks all the time because they are going through uncomfortable growth. But it’s something that they have to grow through in order to get to that next level of development.
And, you know, the same as it is with, you know, physical growth, it is just as uncomfortable when you are growing as a person and, you as an extension growing your business, there are pains, there are risks, there is this unknown.
And, you as I watch my girls, Physically grow and kind of be uncomfortable in their own bodies. They don’t really understand how these mechanics are working.
The same is true as you grow into the unknown as a person, as a professional.
STERLING HAWKINS:
Totally. And growth is growth, by the way. Physical, mental, emotional. Research shows the brain and body process that almost identically.
So where you meet discomfort anywhere translates into how you deal with that discomfort everywhere. So the discomfort of running a 5K or a marathon translates into your ability to deal with the discomfort of a tough conversation at work.
The discomfort of a tough conversation at work might translate into maybe the challenge of getting out of bed when the alarm goes off.
Because if you’re like me, you like to hit that snooze button, right? Like our capacity to deal with that discomfort is a muscle you can build.
And, you know, what I always go back to is there is no growth. There’s no growth without discomfort. It is only in the discomfort of change that new possibilities are emerging.
I think we’ve got to embrace change, embrace the discomfort that goes with it, or we’ll be left behind.
Lindsey:
So how do you cope with it when it gets so much and you are so uncomfortable? How do you get a release from that discomfort?
STERLING HAWKINS:
Or do you just lean into it twice as hard? So that’s a great question, by the way, because I want to be very clear.
I’m not advocating living an uncomfortable life. I don’t wish discomfort on anybody. But I think what many of us do personally and professionally is we kind of lull ourselves into living with low levels of discomfort.
I don’t like the level that my business is at, but because of the economy, because of changing regulations, it’s quote unquote fine.
I don’t love the relationship that I’m in, or I don’t love my partnership, but I’m going to live with it.
So we actually talk. ourselves into dealing with the discomfort that we have and effectively living with it, for some cases, our entire lives.
What I’m advocating here is instead of living with low levels of discomfort in perpetuity, instead, deal with the tough conversation, deal with whatever that hard thing is in your way.
And yes, it’s going to get more uncomfortable for a short period of time, but then you will ultimately be free of it.
And I think that’s what makes the real difference. Like discomfort alone is not enough. It’s when we open our minds to new ideas and really soften our heart to some of those uncomfortable feelings that we can almost transcend that discomfort.
And that’s what growth ultimately is, making the formerly uncomfortable, comfortable.
Lindsey:
And the more that you face it, the more comfortable you become with discomfort. And we can accept it and then grow through it and change the things that you can change to make them more comfortable and better for that long.
Long-term enjoyment and happiness and meeting all of those goals. So we’re all going to PILMA, very excited about it.
And clearly lawyers are there to get inspired and learn some new skills and, you know, explore different options for growing their firms.
And they leave with this excitement. How can law firm owners avoid getting sucked back into old routines and old comfort zones and feed their ambitions as they keep going forward?
STERLING HAWKINS:
Yeah, I think a key to that actually brings us full circle, which is external accountability to the commitments that we make.
Now, everybody there is a high performer at some level or you wouldn’t be there, right? You’re committed to that next level of growth.
And I think one of the pitfalls that high performers fall into is, oh, well, I’m committed to do X, Y, or Z, so I don’t need external accountability.
I’ll figure it out. But we forget that when we’re thrown into the uncomfortable and the uncertain times of the chaos that’s inevitably ahead, we can get lost in that.
We forget what our commitments are, and we start to listen to the excuses. We start to listen to our uncomfortable feelings and forget what we ultimately wanted to achieve.
When we externalize commitments, that means I want to achieve a certain thing at a certain day at a certain time.
And whether you write it down, which would be like the lowest level of that, or share it with somebody, could be a business partner or a friend or a significant other.
But what matters is it’s somebody that’s going to go toe-to-toe with you and actually hold you accountable, which doesn’t mean, oh, you didn’t do it, that’s fine.
I’m not going to be mad at you if you didn’t do it. But let’s dig in and sort out why.
Because it’s honoring those commitments and figuring out how to achieve them that will make a difference. Now, When we have that external accountability, we’re not 70, 80, or 90% more likely to achieve our goal.
We are 95% more likely to achieve our goal. So if we can come out of there lit up and inspired and from that inspired place, make those external commitments, my bet is 95% of people, if not more, will be able to achieve those things, regardless of what’s going on in the world around them.
Lindsey:
Well, that’s the beauty of PILMA is, I mean, you have these super summits that you go to to get the tools, and then you have the mastermind groups that Ken hosts, where you have people who are invested in each other’s success, and they are there to hold each other accountable.
And in the episode that I just had Ken on, he talked all about how they are there as a group for that accountability piece, and that in and of itself makes people so much more successful as it is.
So now that we’re on the topic of PILMA and the Super Summit, I’m super excited to be there. What are you looking forward to most about the conference?
STERLING HAWKINS:
Me too. Well, to me, it’s always about the people. You know, what are people dealing with? What are they ultimately wanting to achieve?
What are they inspired by? And I don’t look at this so much as a keynote where I talk for 60 minutes on the stage.
To me, it’s more of a conversation. So I’m really looking forward to not just seeing everybody, but talking with everybody during the keynote and otherwise to really dig into what matters and see if we can create some paths forward.
Lindsey:
Well, I am sure you’re going to make some great relationships while you’re out there. And it’s such a great experience to be able to lean on each other and learn from each other throughout the course of the week.
So thank you so much for joining us today. I really enjoyed having you on the show.
STERLING HAWKINS:
Thanks for having me. Yeah, looking forward to seeing you very soon.
